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jigokuooc2022-09-29 07:43 pm
jigokumods) wrote in jigokuooc2022-09-29 07:43 pm
Entry tags:
Plot/Event Feedback Post + open discussion!
Recent Feedback Response
To start; an apology While this is a feedback on issues that have existed prior to it, we definitely feel most of this falls on us for how the mini event/"get to work" log was handled. Enthusiasm got the best of us and we threw out way too much with too little time for players (especially the large amount of new players) to really adjust to what we were doing or what was going in.
People who've been in the game for awhile know this was not a usual thing. Yes, the mini-event will usually have some major plot elements, but certainly nothing on the level of what we put in this most recent one and it was a mistake on our part to do so. It overwhelmed too many people, and pushed things too far and too fast, narrative-wise.
We don't intend to retcon what happened (it's honestly too late for that) but we do apologize for letting out enthusiasm get the best of us and assure we will be much more mindful of pace going forward. In fact, the crux of this feedback is about that: pace. Well, that and transparency.
Breathing Room This is going to be implemented in a few ways.We hope these two things give the game way more room to flex and for folks to actually find their legs beneath them in the game again. The most important is that we will not be having an app cycle in October. Applications will be essentially frozen until January 2023. A cap is also being considered, but we will see where the game is at the time we open apps again before revisiting that conversation, but for now, no new apps will be accepted for the next four months. The Wasteland/Iron Bear/Haniyasu plot, the main plot, is going to be re-evaluated and made to be paced out over a longer period of time. Right now, we're looking at not closing it until November, and Toraguma's initial "we move out in 2 weeks" declaration will not turn out to be true, for IC reasons we can honestly pretty easily cook up.
Plot Info Dissemination We will start this by stating that while we have often played our cards close to our chest, it has never been the intention of the mod team to make the plot deliberately obtuse or impossible to decipher. Usually we only hold onto things if the reveal of said information is planned as part of another post. The most recent example of this is the bomb's nature being revealed by Toraguma in an IC post shortly after the mini-event.
That being said, this isn't a very tenable system sometimes, and this is one of those times where people were becoming understandably frustrated at the lack of ability to do anything besides reactive play, which is not what everyone is here for.
As far as character investigations and OOC questions go, know this: we will always tell you if you're going down a dead end. If you are on a cold path, we will let you know so that you don't feel like your time was wasted. That being said, not every question we're given is going to produce the most interesting answers. There is a certain level of player creativity that needs to be expressed to get to things, and this is a factor that is always going to be more impactful than character rank or their established CR in determining if the answer given will lead them somewhere interesting.
We are treading a fine line between allowing players to Find the Fun and guiding players where we want them to be, and it's hard to get this balance right. We like to think we've mostly done well with it, but sometimes things fall short of ideal. We never want people to feel like they're being railroaded, but we also don't want them to feel like they're completely lost.
We want to emphasize two things that genuinely help here, on the player end. First The Story So Far tag, and being sure to read up on what's happened before. These summaries cover the major beats. We also recommend reading other players' questions as they come in, to avoid retreading ground but also sometimes another set of eyes can find something others might have missed. Make the questions a collaborative effort. These are the tools players already have, but we are also want to provide more to that end.
We are open to suggestions on how to help with this process. Again, know that it is not our intention to lock plot information behind obtuse logic or NPC interaction or character rank or anything. None of those factors should be impacting folks ability to engage with the game's plot. We feel we're falling short of our own ideal here, so help would be appreciated.
Plot Transparency. This is less about game-wide plot and more about how things like player plots and smaller mod-run things are handled.
First, we want to put eyes on our brand new Player Submission post for substories and player plots. Previously, these were done through the mod contact page, mostly for the sake of convenience. Unfortunately, the comment screening in that post has caused big gaps in player awareness of what's going on, so instead we're moving all stuff related to player plot submission and subwtories to THIS page, so that everyone can see, and participate, in what's being planned.
You can also use this page to pitch ideas for your characters that you'd like mod help with. We used to do these through the mod contact page or DMs, but we want to move these to an open, public space so the process becomes more transparent and no one feels like anyone else is receiving special treatment.
If you have world-building, IC game history, or other similar types of IC questions, please ask them on the FAQ rather than on the Mod Contact page. This allows for all plot and setting related questions to be visible to all players. We have updated the Mod Contact page to reflect these changes.
We would like to emphasize that we cannot control, and have no intention to control, how players disseminate information on their own plots. However, if either the player with the plot or we as mods feel the plot in question could impact anything outside a small circle of people, we will strongly encourage players to actually make use of our OOC comm for plotting purposes, or at least for a heads up. We do hope this helps with the transparency issue.
On our part, small side plots run by the mods themselves will now be a matter of public accord as well; we will make use of this post to host them and will make the OOC process more transparent than it has been before.
Our hope is this increased transparency will lead to less feelings of FOMO or other anxieties associated with seeing plot things pass one by without feeling like one had a chance to impact anything.
Use of the OOC Comm/Discord issues. This is two fold because it kind of relates back to the same thing, even if they don't seem attached at first.
Namely, we'd like to see players making more use of our OOC comm for plotting purposes. On our part, this means throwing up an OOC plotting post for every major IC log now, mingle/mini-event/main event/etc. On players part, while we certainly can't make anyone do anything, we would like to see more player plots fleshed out on the OOC comm (and the previously linked Player Submissions post) vs doing so on the game discord or plurk.
Furthermore, it should be understood that our helpful Discord Mods (Eski, Dany, Fii, Min, and Caitie) are not game mods. The job they volunteered for is to help run and organize the Discord, and should not be approached about game issues, including about where and when people engage in plotting.
Future Issues Another thing we want to emphasize is we can only act upon what has been presented to us via official contact methods. Unless the issues are brought to our attention via these methods, we may not be aware of them at all.
We are grateful for the folks that came forward with feedback about the issue, but the scope of the issue wasn't realized until we were informed about player sentiments in other places. Even if it's something seemingly as little as feeling as if your question wasn't answered well, just please let us know via official contact methods. We want this game to be a fun and engaging experience for everyone.
Please feel free to discuss things below. We mentioned we're open to suggestions about better means of handling player investigations/questions, but we're also just open to discussion about all of this in general. We want people to feel like they can have these discussions without it boiling over into frustration.
no subject
In terms of thoughtfulness, it might be worth polling the players once you have some solid options for how to deal with a lot of the issues that are happening. Whether you decide to do that or not, it would be really useful to have a follow-up to this post where you announce the solid changes you plan to put into effect going forward. Right now, I don't know what to expect from staying in this game, and it makes me feel really uncertain about my future here. I'm sure I'm not alone. Knowing how things are going to work from now on would be very helpful.
Having read through a lot of the feedback, I wanted to add my +1 to a few different points.
Apps and general pacing
In a way, the explosion of plot happening feels kind of like a situation where the mods didn't "read the room," so to speak. What I mean by that is that it feels like you guys had a really solid plan in place, and refused to look at the way players have been interacting to think "do we need to change this at all to accommodate the huge influx of new characters?" I know tabletop RP is vastly different from DWRP, but one commonality they have is that mods need to be able to pivot or change directions based on what's actually happening in the game. You guys have to be able to look at what's going on and say "gee, we should probably hold off on plot and just make this an ordinary mingle" when you get 70+ new characters in an app round.
And I think you're having the same problem with apps. Putting in a blanket "at the very last minute, we're going to close apps for basically 4 months" is a pretty extreme response, and it's not reading the situation well at all. You guys are the mods. You set the pace. It's your game, and the rules/schedule are set because you have set them -- that means you can change the schedule to suit what works best for the game as it stands when that time comes around. You could easily say "we're going to push apps off by a month/month and a half" or even "we're capping new apps at [x] number" (or both, or an overhead game cap, or something else entirely), but just a blanket last-minute full-stop feels like a really thoughtless solution. What I'm asking here is for you guys to be more thoughtful and flexible about how you approach the problems that have come up.
Plot transparency
To be blunt, this entire section of your post is pretty lacking. All it says is "we haven't been transparent and we're going to." The thing is, this doesn't mean anything until and unless you say how you plan to do that. OOC plotting posts is a good way to start with that, but a large contingent of players honestly feels like you're playing favorites and picking/choosing who you dole out plot hooks to, and you make no mention of how you plan to fix that lack of transparency.
To that end, I want to echo the suggestion for rng signups, which can be really helpful in a multitude of capacities. Do I think that players who go the extra mile and poke the bear should be rewarded on top of that? I sure do. But having some kind of "we're going to have a plot, here are sign-ups, you sign up at your own risk" mechanic would make it way easier for characters to get involved. Especially characters who are new.
So basically: tell us how you're going to be more transparent with plots and plotting in the future. Tell us how you're going to make it more streamlined and accessible for players who want to get involved.
OOC plotting
The Discord operates sometimes at a frenetic pace, please god move plotting to the OOC comm.
OOC calendar of events
This was another suggestion mentioned in an above post, but I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for players to know when things are happening. It's massively important, not just so we know when to start getting our writing brains in gear, but also so that people can sign up to be involved with full knowledge of how much they're getting themselves into.
The other thing an OOC calendar does is it makes it less necessary to have the exact same schedule every month/two months. Right now, the way the game is paced has you guys kind of facing a wall: you have to have this part of the plot up at [x] time of the month, because that's what the schedule says. The calendar offers us some transparency, and offers you guys some flexibility. Best thing for everyone.
In spite of the negativity I've expressed here, I'm really eager to see what kind of changes and amendments you guys plan to put in place to help with these issues. Modding a game like this is not an easy job and I'm really grateful that you've taken on the task anyway. Thanks for your hard work.
+1