"While this is a feedback on issues that have existed prior to it, we definitely feel most of this falls on us for how the mini event/"get to work" log was handled."
Factually no. The rushed event has been a major focus, but it's also caused other issues to come to light that have been noted and criticized in the past. There's been enough plausible deniability that I personally thought was individual moments of "that's weird", but in retrospect I realize were parts of a bigger underlying issue. I know people have made crit in the past that has been ignored.
I'd like to emphasize that, with regards to the rushed event, it really can't be understated how unwelcoming it has been to many new players. So many newbies I've seen have no idea what is happening, how to get involved, what events even lead up to the current plot, what's even expected of them as members of a given faction, and how to establish a CR base to get any foodhold in the game. That's a major concern.
The rushed event has also meant that players who are slower-paced (which this game has a lot of, see the 8-comment AC) or international players who rely on backtags, either have to rush themselves, or sit things out, or drop older threads to stay current. None of those three options are appealling.
"People who've been in the game for awhile know this was not a usual thing."
Waggles hands. While the Blood Storm event was generally paced more evenly (foreshadowed in Get To Work then all of June to experience the main event) the conclusion to it pretty clearly ran into scheduling issues and bumped up into TDM. Not the worst thing in the world but still an indication that scheduling is a prior issue.
On that note, while I was a randomized participant in the Blood Storm conclusion and enjoyed the log, it raises a different issue that I'll go into later.
"Applications will be essentially frozen until January 2023. A cap is also being considered"
~180 characters at time of comment, so yeah.
"The Wasteland/Iron Bear/Haniyasu plot, the main plot, is going to be re-evaluated and made to be paced out over a longer period of time."
The bounty storyline needs leeway time, so yeah.
"As far as character investigations and OOC questions go, know this: we will always tell you if you're going down a dead end. If you are on a cold path, we will let you know so that you don't feel like your time was wasted. That being said, not every question we're given is going to produce the most interesting answers."
True, in that event questions have gotten "this is a dead end' responses. Please don't think that just because one person gets a question response in their inbox, they can't look to the side and see someone else ask almost the same question and get a different one.
One example is during Tanabata. All of Sutoku asking questions, many of whom have connections or are sneaky, and get hardly anything about Kaberou… And now a massive infodump about Kaberou comes to light that frankly contradicts what was said before? Another example is this bombing event. Why does a Shuten lieutenant, who works closely with Jiro and has a direct professional line to something like the warehouse, ask the fire brigade about the warehouse fire and get nothing, but an Enma officer gets first dibs? Why, in the July mini-event, did a newly-apped character learn about gyokuto's secret instantly, when that's been a mystery the entire game, and it says in the game's FAQ that yokai/mythical player-characters won't get special treatment from the game? https://jigokulogs.dreamwidth.org/47812.html?thread=6723012#cmt6723012
"We want to emphasize two things that genuinely help here, on the player end. First The Story So Far tag, and being sure to read up on what's happened before."
The summaries that go up after the fact, so people who would have wanted to participate have no idea what they missed until it's too late?
"We also recommend reading other players' questions as they come in, to avoid retreading ground but also sometimes another set of eyes can find something others might have missed."
Why do players have to sift through however-many comments, in the hopes that one of the responses is going to have what they want to know?
Why should so much basic intel be locked behind "ask the right questions" ? Isn't that so much more work?
I had been under the impression that questions were more for tidbits and side-stuff, but that has not been the case at all. Why did I have to ask what the video broadcasted to the entire city even looked like?
If the answers were consistent across the board, wouldn't it be easier to have an ooc event post of what you could find out based on your tier? "A 3*** character could find out this: [...] A 2** character could find out this: [...]" etc.
By the way, speaking of rank influence, why was Tamamo behind the bombing of Shuten's warehouse, yet most of Tamamo, especially higher-ranked characters than the person carrying out the bombing, were completely in the dark?
"Again, know that it is not our intention to lock plot information behind obtuse logic or NPC interaction or character rank or anything. None of those factors should be impacting folks ability to engage with the game's plot."
Engage with it more than reacting it, you mean?
"Plot Transparency. This is less about game-wide plot and more about how things like player plots and smaller mod-run things are handled."
What? Player concerns were about the game-wide plot's transparency. The multiple events/incidents that occurred adjacent to the bombing were all part of the game-wide plot. Would you like to address that part?
"We used to do these through the mod contact page or DMs, but we want to move these to an open, public space so the process becomes more transparent and no one feels like anyone else is receiving special treatment."
So I have gone over the full response post a few times, and this is the part that hangs closest the the biggest issue in this game. Everyone has noticed that only a handful of people get opportunities, get extra intel or perks, get IC-recognized authority regardless of rank or activity, or get major involvement in the main plot, and other people who try, or who are active and on-paper should have rank and authority, are given nothing. I'm not going to name names but everyone can see it. You might think you're giving people perks and gifts, but I can tell you that multiple people who have been picked to be a mod "teacher's pet" have been deeply uncomfortable with their status, have realized that their wishes to be involved with the plot and community have been twisted into favoritism, and don't want to be singled out anymore.
Even in events that invited people outside of that circle have been structured in deeply weird ways. I'm going to use the Tower Expedition as an example. The teams were randomly picked, yes, and it was a result of player participation and work. It still all came down to the rest of the game watching 8 people be the main characters. In retrospect, I do not feel good about my participation. Even with player participation, the door should have been open for a wider effort. In-game victories, or defeats, in a game of 100+ people, need to be shared across the game.
"We would like to emphasize that we cannot control, and have no intention to control, how players disseminate information on their own plots."
I'm doing my best to respond to this productively, but I can't believe this. This is a mod response from a team who has clearly seen the crit about hidden information or information that's hard to find because it's scattered across random logs/posts and event question threads in two communities, and it says, "It's your problem now." Okay.
"On our part, small side plots run by the mods themselves will not be a matter of public accord as well"
Why? Do you not trust people to infomod? Why shouldn't events that affect the game setting and have ramifications for everyone be kept a secret?
"Namely, we'd like to see players making more use of our OOC comm for plotting purposes."
After people asked why the OOC community wasn't in use for plotting and there wasn't an ooc event plotting post for the bombing event, you mean? I'm sure you're not taking credit for someone else's suggestion, because that would be bad.
"Unless the issues are brought to our attention via these methods, we may not be aware of them at all.
We are grateful for the folks that came forward with feedback about the issue, but the scope of the issue wasn't realized until we were informed about player sentiments in other places."
You're lying.
I know for a fact multiple people have brought up crit, both to your face and in the screened post, and gotten nothing or gotten told "We'll work on it" and nothing has changed. There is no reason to believe anything will change now.
I think you need to take a long and hard look at what you really want a game for. Do you want to run a game for 100 people and give those 100 people a chance to shine? Or do you want a sandbox of 10 with an audience of 90? This isn't a question of "Yes, if they want to participate," because I see people time and time again jumping to ask questions or get interested in the plot or take their faction premise and run with it, and I see them get no-sold or stopped in their tracks, and only a handful ascended to the role of main character.
no subject
Factually no. The rushed event has been a major focus, but it's also caused other issues to come to light that have been noted and criticized in the past. There's been enough plausible deniability that I personally thought was individual moments of "that's weird", but in retrospect I realize were parts of a bigger underlying issue. I know people have made crit in the past that has been ignored.
I'd like to emphasize that, with regards to the rushed event, it really can't be understated how unwelcoming it has been to many new players. So many newbies I've seen have no idea what is happening, how to get involved, what events even lead up to the current plot, what's even expected of them as members of a given faction, and how to establish a CR base to get any foodhold in the game. That's a major concern.
The rushed event has also meant that players who are slower-paced (which this game has a lot of, see the 8-comment AC) or international players who rely on backtags, either have to rush themselves, or sit things out, or drop older threads to stay current. None of those three options are appealling.
"People who've been in the game for awhile know this was not a usual thing."
Waggles hands. While the Blood Storm event was generally paced more evenly (foreshadowed in Get To Work then all of June to experience the main event) the conclusion to it pretty clearly ran into scheduling issues and bumped up into TDM. Not the worst thing in the world but still an indication that scheduling is a prior issue.
On that note, while I was a randomized participant in the Blood Storm conclusion and enjoyed the log, it raises a different issue that I'll go into later.
"Applications will be essentially frozen until January 2023. A cap is also being considered"
~180 characters at time of comment, so yeah.
"The Wasteland/Iron Bear/Haniyasu plot, the main plot, is going to be re-evaluated and made to be paced out over a longer period of time."
The bounty storyline needs leeway time, so yeah.
"As far as character investigations and OOC questions go, know this: we will always tell you if you're going down a dead end. If you are on a cold path, we will let you know so that you don't feel like your time was wasted. That being said, not every question we're given is going to produce the most interesting answers."
True, in that event questions have gotten "this is a dead end' responses.
Please don't think that just because one person gets a question response in their inbox, they can't look to the side and see someone else ask almost the same question and get a different one.
One example is during Tanabata. All of Sutoku asking questions, many of whom have connections or are sneaky, and get hardly anything about Kaberou… And now a massive infodump about Kaberou comes to light that frankly contradicts what was said before?
Another example is this bombing event. Why does a Shuten lieutenant, who works closely with Jiro and has a direct professional line to something like the warehouse, ask the fire brigade about the warehouse fire and get nothing, but an Enma officer gets first dibs?
Why, in the July mini-event, did a newly-apped character learn about gyokuto's secret instantly, when that's been a mystery the entire game, and it says in the game's FAQ that yokai/mythical player-characters won't get special treatment from the game? https://jigokulogs.dreamwidth.org/47812.html?thread=6723012#cmt6723012
"We want to emphasize two things that genuinely help here, on the player end. First The Story So Far tag, and being sure to read up on what's happened before."
The summaries that go up after the fact, so people who would have wanted to participate have no idea what they missed until it's too late?
"We also recommend reading other players' questions as they come in, to avoid retreading ground but also sometimes another set of eyes can find something others might have missed."
Why do players have to sift through however-many comments, in the hopes that one of the responses is going to have what they want to know?
Why should so much basic intel be locked behind "ask the right questions" ? Isn't that so much more work?
I had been under the impression that questions were more for tidbits and side-stuff, but that has not been the case at all. Why did I have to ask what the video broadcasted to the entire city even looked like?
If the answers were consistent across the board, wouldn't it be easier to have an ooc event post of what you could find out based on your tier?
"A 3*** character could find out this: [...]
A 2** character could find out this: [...]"
etc.
By the way, speaking of rank influence, why was Tamamo behind the bombing of Shuten's warehouse, yet most of Tamamo, especially higher-ranked characters than the person carrying out the bombing, were completely in the dark?
"Again, know that it is not our intention to lock plot information behind obtuse logic or NPC interaction or character rank or anything. None of those factors should be impacting folks ability to engage with the game's plot."
Engage with it more than reacting it, you mean?
"Plot Transparency. This is less about game-wide plot and more about how things like player plots and smaller mod-run things are handled."
What? Player concerns were about the game-wide plot's transparency. The multiple events/incidents that occurred adjacent to the bombing were all part of the game-wide plot. Would you like to address that part?
"We used to do these through the mod contact page or DMs, but we want to move these to an open, public space so the process becomes more transparent and no one feels like anyone else is receiving special treatment."
So I have gone over the full response post a few times, and this is the part that hangs closest the the biggest issue in this game.
Everyone has noticed that only a handful of people get opportunities, get extra intel or perks, get IC-recognized authority regardless of rank or activity, or get major involvement in the main plot, and other people who try, or who are active and on-paper should have rank and authority, are given nothing. I'm not going to name names but everyone can see it.
You might think you're giving people perks and gifts, but I can tell you that multiple people who have been picked to be a mod "teacher's pet" have been deeply uncomfortable with their status, have realized that their wishes to be involved with the plot and community have been twisted into favoritism, and don't want to be singled out anymore.
Even in events that invited people outside of that circle have been structured in deeply weird ways. I'm going to use the Tower Expedition as an example. The teams were randomly picked, yes, and it was a result of player participation and work.
It still all came down to the rest of the game watching 8 people be the main characters.
In retrospect, I do not feel good about my participation. Even with player participation, the door should have been open for a wider effort. In-game victories, or defeats, in a game of 100+ people, need to be shared across the game.
"We would like to emphasize that we cannot control, and have no intention to control, how players disseminate information on their own plots."
I'm doing my best to respond to this productively, but I can't believe this. This is a mod response from a team who has clearly seen the crit about hidden information or information that's hard to find because it's scattered across random logs/posts and event question threads in two communities, and it says, "It's your problem now." Okay.
"On our part, small side plots run by the mods themselves will not be a matter of public accord as well"
Why?
Do you not trust people to infomod?
Why shouldn't events that affect the game setting and have ramifications for everyone be kept a secret?
"Namely, we'd like to see players making more use of our OOC comm for plotting purposes."
After people asked why the OOC community wasn't in use for plotting and there wasn't an ooc event plotting post for the bombing event, you mean? I'm sure you're not taking credit for someone else's suggestion, because that would be bad.
"Unless the issues are brought to our attention via these methods, we may not be aware of them at all.
We are grateful for the folks that came forward with feedback about the issue, but the scope of the issue wasn't realized until we were informed about player sentiments in other places."
You're lying.
I know for a fact multiple people have brought up crit, both to your face and in the screened post, and gotten nothing or gotten told "We'll work on it" and nothing has changed. There is no reason to believe anything will change now.
I think you need to take a long and hard look at what you really want a game for. Do you want to run a game for 100 people and give those 100 people a chance to shine? Or do you want a sandbox of 10 with an audience of 90? This isn't a question of "Yes, if they want to participate," because I see people time and time again jumping to ask questions or get interested in the plot or take their faction premise and run with it, and I see them get no-sold or stopped in their tracks, and only a handful ascended to the role of main character.
I'm not here to fill seats. Bye.